1. fellow

    fellow Member

    If you watch any trollbox people often complain about bots which do automated trading in one or another way. Some people prefer to code their own bots and others prefer to buy one.
    From whichever side you look at it there seem to be people making profits from using such automation or they loose tons of money by using it.

    If you look at the orderbooks on any exchange there are always battles for the top bid and top sell order. I absolutely cannot understand the intention of this since the ordersizes are mostly smaller than dust. Also I do not get why people put walls in place. I think all this happens to manipulate bot decisions. The bot game I know quite well since I code mine, analyze, loose, take profits, throw code away and restart from scratch since a couple of years now. Doing this seems to feel like the search for a kind of holy grail which never ends. With crypto and almost anything else there is no rational market prediction possible but you can bet on odds for possible profits. Once I had integrated some rough estimation for this the market ups and downs turned out to follow some simple rules.

    If we remember what the willy bot did and how the market reacted to this there seem to be no defined all time highs for anything which is beeing traded. Bots simply look for certain triggers and decide to buy, sell or dump (a sell with minor losses with the intention to buy more for less, some call it shorting).
    Just remember that the only requirement for a market, which a bot can trade, is the possibility to sell for a higher price than the asset has been bought for. Having in mind that the willy bot could drive the price up until the such called bubble popped there is no real reason for anyone to stop automated trades despite someone does not want to become a bagholder of the traded asset.

    You can code a bot for almost anything. You can create a bot to pump or to dump an asset and tell it how many btc it is allowed to burn to move markets. You can also code a bot to keep the market price almost constant and you can code a bot which snipers such actions from other peoples bots to gain profits out of it. If you look from outside (without access to any exchange db) onto markets you can quickly figure out on which coins which bot mechanics are active.

    Beside all the wanted effects bots have also sideeffects which may turn out to influence a market into an unwanted direction if you are a big player and your bot moved the market. My basic rule is not to trade more than 10 percent of the dailie volume of a coin alone because other peoples bots may be turned off or triggers not released if your bot takes their expected profits and you loose a market to trade on. The good thing about this is that I assume that this happens more often than the average bot user thinks this happens which turns out to be good for the market itself due to votality freezes and people dumping manually.

    Today I think the only usecase most coins have is that the coin can be traded on exchanges to make profits in btc which get converted into fiat or to use it on gambling sites. Even if this sounds weird it turns out to work for the economy. That this works is really great because beside crypto there exists no market in which such small amounts of money can be traded 24/7 in an automated way. The impact the bots have to markets is that without them there wont be a market.

    If someone speaks about the marketcap a coin has there is no real way to figure this out because there exists a total supply of coins, there exists the available and future supply and there exists the market which requires to eat all this theoretical available supply. I have not seen a single coin in the past which could hold or beat their alltimehigh steadily. This means that there must be some bots doing a great job since they stop to buy if they think there is no way to make profits anymore.

    So what does all this mean for the design of a new coin? Does the design require to play with the magic numbers that control the supply or can all that simply be ignored?

    I think a requirement for a coin that it can be used as a currency from which people do not expect to loose money from if they pay their stuff with is that people can get fresh supply outside from exchange controlled markets comparable to how arbing works.
    manny hammers likes this.
  2. Ryler Sturden

    Ryler Sturden Member Staff Member MC Developer

    You can actually learn a lot from central banks and things like the federal reserve. These guys have been doing it a lot longer than us. No need to reinvent every wheel on the cryptotrain. ;)

    The problem these guys have is that now we can start to release open source, free alternatives to their centralized control which only benefits them. It will be interesting watching this play out.
    manny hammers likes this.
  3. manny hammers

    manny hammers New Member

  4. SuperTramp

    SuperTramp Administrator Staff Member

    Bots can help add liquidity to some markets. Be nimble with your trading and be "1" with the bots.
  5. Ryler Sturden

    Ryler Sturden Member Staff Member MC Developer

    Bots are interesting for a "consumer" (read: human) based site, especially with near realtime sites like mcx. It was very obvious to everyone that bots were there whereas on other sites because they were so slow you barely noticed them pushing trades around. On other sites it was easy to think everyone was placing trades themselves, on mcx it was like BOTS ARE HERE WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THEM???? Which is an interesting part of human psychology and our limitations, we often don't think about problems until they are in our face. Don't you wish you had a spare 50% of your brain just processing potential future outcomes from all your activities? :)

    I can certainly understand that when a human comes along and sees bot activity it can make them feel inadequate, The reality is trade bots can do what we do much better, in theory, provided they have good programming. But at the moment they still require a fair amount of human input to work, and I don't know any trade bot creators that are successful with their own bots. The people who say they are successful with them are often selling their bots, which makes you realize, they are not that successful. Anyone who is selling you the shovels (bot software) is not making money from the gold mining (trading), they are making money from being the middle man in a retail transaction (selling shovels).

    But if you have a spare 15 minutes watch the following to know the sober reality of what is facing humans in the next 5-15 years, complete obsolescence.

    I suspect programmers will be the among the last to go, but we will go. I know my severe limitations when it comes to programming. It is not the problem solving it is all the things that computers can already do well, data entry and testing. If I had the ability to put data into the computer quicker and then test the result MicroCash Beta would be finished in one day. I am not joking. Every technical problem facing MicroCash is solved (and has been in my head for years) , it is now just a matter of putting it all together in C++ and testing for mistakes I have made. This process takes a human much time, a computer not much time. The computer is just not good at problem solving yet, but it will be soon. Once it is I can sit back and realize I have no point in existing as a programmer any more. :)
  6. bitmonk

    bitmonk New Member

    Bots are a good source of excitement, it builds life to trading, especially when you are on the right way of surfing the wave.
  7. shin1234

    shin1234 New Member

    i agree with the last reply, bot add and additional edge for traders especially if you are moving in the right way it's giving convenience for traders to stay and focus and most of it bot also help you what decision to make when seeing the advantage.

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