1. necom

    necom Administrator Staff Member MC Developer

    I think it's pretty clear what I said: MicroCash does not exist, but when users deposit BTC to your exchange, you tell them they can "already acquire MicroCash on this site", which is not true. Semantic argument? Maybe. However, the fact is, there is no MicroCash currently, therefore, they are not acquiring any MicroCash through your site. They are in fact not even "acquiring MicroCash" when they deposit to the official BTC address -- they are holding a place for some future supply, at a promised rate... supply to be delivered in the future, not at time of deposit.

    I don't think this is a difficult point. If I say "deposit BTC to my wallet and I will act as your broker for 3% fee, returning your MicroCash to you once it's released", that could also be a true statement. It makes no logical sense to do that though, which is why I'm bringing up this issue at all. I think this is obvious from my statements as well as the common sense we're hoping our users to employ. (Again, I'm talking about if they simply want to obtain MC in the future.. this is not discussing the notion of trading on your exchange, which I think is a separate issue.)

    The next point is then that it's not just a 3% brokerage fee (in your case), this is a fee covering various service charges and also to allow you to have access to a surrogate MicroCash to trade right now (summary is mine, for the sake of this discussion). I am not commenting on whether that's "legit" or whatever. I'm not talking about trusting you to not be fraudulent. I've stated quite clearly that my concern is about stating that users are "trading MicroCash", which they are not, until MC actually exists. Until then, they are trading tokens that only exist on your exchange. In my opinion, that is what should be told to people, but that's just /my/ opinion. I'm not sure if I'd be supported on this opinion or not by anyone else, so I'm just pointing out these thoughts. You can tell people you're trading virtual ham steaks if you want and they are of course free to deposit BTC to trade virtual ham steaks.

    This is just me pointing out facts. I'm not making any claims or stating anything about my personal trust or whatever. I just personally think you're talking about something that is not currently possible: trading MicroCash. If you were talking about trading "MicroCash24 Tokens, which will one day be converted to MicroCash at a 1:1 ratio when it's available", then that's more accurate, in my mind... not "more accurate" though, "accurate". I fully understand that releasing something now will give you time to do testing and improvements, which is great. Why not just do that with fake tokens for a while until the kinks are sorted (if there are any, anyway -- seems like you might already have a functional bit of code.)

    ...but as I keep hearing from folks in crypto, everything is obvious and nobody needs to be told anything since they think for themselves. Since my name is currently attached to MC, this all matters to me very much to not leave it in the hands of guesses or assumptions. If I'm even tangentially involved, I'm going to stand up for the users as well as the devs, so that's what's behind my concerns.

    I'll fade back into the shadows now, as I am certain I've made very clear points on this subject. You've responded well to the core issues and for that, I appreciate it. I consider the community served by my comments, which was my only intent.
  2. Julian

    Julian New Member

    I mostly agree on what you said in your last post.

    The problem is you mentioned the trust issue before. And it is hard to not take that personally. Maybe I overreacted a bit ;)

    But I think the warning that I now included every time you somehow convert Bitcoins to "MicroCash tokens" on my exchange should make everything a bit clearer. And we are talking about virtual ham steaks that will either become actual ham steaks or will be converted back to Bitcoin, as for that.

    Lastly I want to mention that this 3% fee was only introduced to save me from paying for high fluctuations of the USD/BTC rate. Since this fee seems to be misunderstood or considered too high by most people I removed it completely. That means there is no more fee for Bitcoins-to-"MicroCash tokens" conversion. And that means that you will get even more MicroCash, because I don't use daily average but the actual rate at every minute (which has to exceed the daily average unless the exchange rate remains on the same level for a whole day).

    I also removed the trading fee, which means there are no more fees at all. Except for 0.0001 BTC I charge for withdrawals. I am sure you don't expect me to pay the Bitcoin transaction fees too.

    I hope this will encourage people to try out the exchange.
  3. Ryler Sturden

    Ryler Sturden Member Staff Member MC Developer

    If you use the same coindesk API and simply look at the days highest point you should be pretty close to what we are using (currently) and minimize any potential losses. They use some average of exchanges to avoid temporary crappy values. However the main thing is the essence of what we are doing, not specifically a singular API. And that is the highest USD was from a reputable source. It is of course possible to start you own BTC exchange and exchange it for 2 million USD there with 0.00000001 bitcoins. :)

    In the old days there were some exchanges doing run n guns with peoples bitcoins and solidcoins. But Julian didn't, and he even released the source code for his exchange upon my request. So I think he has a good standing in the crypto community, at least there is nothing I've seen that doesn't show someone who has the best values in a person to run such services. Once MicroCash is out the ability to move funds instantly and securely will see a new use-model with exchanges I believe. People keep bitcoins in an exchange often because it takes so long to move it - making trading impossible if you don't have bitcoins in that exchange. With MicroCash it is one click away, and instantly at exchange. The exchange runs no risk at all with MicroCash unlike other cryptocurrencies so they can be much looser on how they treat it too.

    Anyhow until we get MicroCash out there in better forms (BETA?) I don't think we are going to get that many people interested. It is mainly the old timers here with a couple new faces. The reality of the cryptocurrency "industry" if you want to call it that is it is an overcrowded, very noisy, very scammy place. MicroCash will have to deliver on all points to make any impact. Knowing what I do about the technology I believe it is very different to everything else out there. But none of this guarantees success, or users. We need actual hard numbers, a real node people can use and put their hands on to see the power of it. Otherwise it is just more words in an industry full of words and claims and not much else.

    Julian if you want to help out with the main site here in the mean time you are welcome to. We need some PHP developers because currently I am doing things when I really should be doing C++ instead. :) If not I would say look into adding other currencies to your exchange like Eth and such because being able to trade multiple things is good. Just be aware of the risks with many of the alt currencies, I'd advise you to stick to the bigger coins to avoid facing losses on the backend that have nothing to do with your code.
  4. Julian

    Julian New Member

    Yes, I am using the coindesk API and fluctuations actually aren't a big problem there indeed.

    That sounds preety awesome.

    And adding more currencies is a good idea too (and shouldn't be too much work)!

    I already was thinking about offering my help to directly contribute to the project. I will get back to you on that.
  5. Ryler Sturden

    Ryler Sturden Member Staff Member MC Developer

    Sounds great, I look forward to it!
  6. Julian

    Julian New Member

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